8 thoughts on “Legalism Quote

  1. Good quote. Our pastor once said that whenever we defend ourselves by saying, “I don’t see anything wrong with that”, there is probably at least one thing wrong with it.

    Berean Wife Reply:

    Terry,

    Sounds like you have a wise pastor. Seems like the quicker we are to defend ourselves the more likely that the depiction is accurate. But even if not we should always give serious consideration to another’s words. They may reveal more than we think.

    Berean Wife

  2. Do you know where Botkins says this quote?
    You appear to be one to test all spirits and teachers and look to only the scripture as your final authority.

    I see Geoff Botkins quote as putting himself as a leader/teacher above testing – blaming the weaker vessel, the one who is examining. It is only God at work in us that will bring repentance, and how is he to judge a person’s heart?
    Research Botkin for yourself, he was involved with The Great Commission, a well known cult. I see this statement has a power position to avoid honesty and real search for truth. How did Christ view legalism? We can not anything to the gospel of Christ.
    My two cents – keep thinking and examining –

    Berean Wife Reply:

    Anonymous,

    I do know where the quote comes from. It is in the book written by his daughters. What difference does that make?

    Botkin is not putting himself above testing. I read the whole book. His point was that those who are not willing to examine themselves often throw out the “Pharisee card”, the “judge not” or the “legalism” claim instead of humbly examining themselves. The other side of the same coin is those who advocate a return to the Law of Moses for all believers.

    I didn’t realize the Great Commission was a cult. Personally I strive to be worthy to be called a member, fulfilling the Great Commission every day. I recommend you check it out yourself.

    Matthew 28:18-20
    18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
    19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
    20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
    ESV

    Otherwise known as the Great Commission!

    Berean Wife

  3. I think you have misunderstood.
    I was wondering where the quote was from so i could better understand it. The quote alone, can be seen/intrepreted as a position of power over someone else, asserting that a call of legalism ALWAYS leads to a hardened heart when it could be a sincere concern in the teaching. Perhaps I have misunderstood it.

    You seem defensive, I had no intention of insulting you. I only commented here because you seem so open to searching after the mind of God for yourself. (which I think is good) I was not referring to “the Great Commission” in the Bible that we are all called to partake in. I would consider myself a member of that also, by the grace of God.

    I was trying to share with you information I have learned about Botkin that I thought was disturbing.
    Perhaps this link would explain my concerns better than i can.

    Thanks for listening

    {Note – I removed the included link – Berean Wife}

    Berean Wife Reply:

    Anonymous,

    It appears you have issues with many, many people and with what the Scriptures actually teach.

    I’m not searching after the Mind of God, apart from Scripture. The link you included is full of rants about everyone from Botkin to Baucham. Including a variety of issues from homeschooling, FIC, and fathers leading their families. While no one is perfect and no one follows Scripture perfectly, your included link paints everyone with a broad brush as Legalists. However, the obvious factor missing is Scripture. If you are to refute another’s teaching it must be with Scripture and not man’s opinions.

    Here is one quote from your link about Family Integrated Churches:

    The Family Integrated Church Movement was deemed “errant and schismatic” because….
    * It encourages schism in the local church bodies by encouraging its adherents to change the theology and philosophy of the churches of which they are members.

    Yet where is the Biblical basis for separating the family into neat little age “appropriate” groupings. Essentially cutting apart the “Body of Christ” into its little parts – toes go here, arms go there, legs stay here,…

    See how ridiculous that sounds. But that is what the church often does. Then is it any wonder that the toes don’t get along with the fingers and then they go out and create a church that appeals to just toes.

    You didn’t insult me but that link insults every family that ever homeschools, every wife that submits to her husband, every church member that listened to an elder, or every child obedient to their father. All without any Biblical basis.

    Berean Wife

  4. Oh Dear.

    Just so you know, I love the Lord and his holy scriptures. And I agree it is only through his word that we find him. I was not suggesting anything else. I have served God my whole life and will continue to serve him by his grace. My concern is that often people in general are quick to put teachers outside of our local chuch, the authors, etc., on a different level and we don’t dig deeper to see what they are really about. And I have been concerned about Botkin’s background.

    I am a mom with five young to teen children which I have homeschooled all of their lives, perhaps I am more like you than you may realize.

    I have been to FIC churches and I have close relatives who attend churches that are organized in that manner. That was not my concern.

    I don’t’ know what else to say, my comments and concerns are made only with the best intention.

    I have found the website I linked you to specifically regarding Botkins involvement in previous cultic organizations to be interesting and sincere. I am sorry you found it so offensive.

    May God continue to Guide you, as I am certain he will.

    Berean Wife Reply:

    Anonymous,

    Just so you know, I love the Lord and his holy scriptures. And I agree it is only through his word that we find him. I was not suggesting anything else. I have served God my whole life and will continue to serve him by his grace. My concern is that often people in general are quick to put teachers outside of our local chuch, the authors, etc., on a different level and we don’t dig deeper to see what they are really about. And I have been concerned about Botkin’s background.

    However, my experience is that there have been very few Biblical teachers, period. This goes for the Independent Fundamantal Baptists, and the Southern Baptists, not just a “patriarchy” teaching church. However, you are correct that putting pastors, teachers and authors above Scripture is very dangerous.

    I am a mom with five young to teen children which I have homeschooled all of their lives, perhaps I am more like you than you may realize.

    I have been to FIC churches and I have close relatives who attend churches that are organized in that manner. That was not my concern.

    Yet, the link you provided denigrates FIC churches as being ““special purpose religion” for homeschooling families, something that emerged from the Christian homeschooling movement.” Which is incorrect. The Sunday School movement was initiated in 1857 in SBC churches. Not until 1891 was there an organized Sunday School board for SBC churches. Until then family integration was the norm until recent history so saying that family integration is something started by homeschool families is totally wrong, maybe they reinitiated it but family integration has always been the norm in Baptist churches. Although some older churches did separate the women and children from the men for no clear Biblical basis.

    I don’t’ know what else to say, my comments and concerns are made only with the best intention.

    My warning is that the information you are reading on the websites linked throughout the main website are just as dangerous as the proposed problems they claim they are exposing. When the focus is not on Scripture it is no different from jumping from the “frying pan into the fire“, you will get burned either way.

    I have found the website I linked you to specifically regarding Botkins involvement in previous cultic organizations to be interesting and sincere. I am sorry you found it so offensive.

    See the problem with the website is the very few Scripture phrases they use are in reference to how they are misapplied in the erroneous churches – “submission” and “doctrine”.

    There are very few Biblical phrases used in their own teaching beyond “love” or “love one another”.

    Then they focus on “self-esteem“, “Self-worth“, “cognitive dissonance” and “psychological strategies” as the solution to the problems. If you question their information and material about certain individuals or ideas then you are suffering from “Cognitive dissonance” then a link is given to better understand the psychology of “cognitive dissonance“. But throughout there is a total lack of Scripture. Then there are expressions like “honor your own feelings” and “awareness of the soles of my feet“. This is very dangerous and totally not based on anything Biblical.

    If you’ve read enough, then you will find that many of those who are rejecting some of this teaching they are warning against also rejected the gospel and are now atheistic or some other faith. See the truth is they were never believers to begin with and so of course they distorted the Scripture and other teachings in their own lives. No unbeliever has the discernment to determine truth without the Holy Spirit living in them. Thus it is very dangerous to place much store in their writings.

    May God continue to Guide you, as I am certain he will.

    The Word of God is to be our guide not another’s teaching, however, that does not mean we can’t learn from others. But if the teaching includes one phrase of Scripture and then many of man’s words we know we have fallen for man’s teaching which can happen in any church or setting.

    This is why expositional preaching and teaching is so important. Taking a passage or verse from the Bible and explaining it using other verses and Biblical passages is the best way to avoid false teaching. But everyone is responsible for being Berean and examining God’s Word for the truth.

    2 Timothy 3:13-17 (ESV)
    13 while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
    14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it
    15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
    16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
    17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

    We as women must not become careless in our discernment. We must not let ourselves be deceived as Eve was:

    2 Corinthians 11:3 (ESV) But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

    Berean Wife

Comments are closed.