Where Is Sodom?

What is Sodom referring to in Scripture?

I have found three different types of references to Sodom.

1) Sodom the City

Sodom, of course, in Scripture refers to a real place, a real city.

We are told the location of Sodom.

Genesis 10:19 (ESV) And the territory of the Canaanites extended from Sidon in the direction of Gerar as far as Gaza, and in the direction of Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboiim, as far as Lasha.

Then later Scripture tells us about the men of Sodom.

Genesis 13:13 (ESV) Now the men of Sodom were wicked, great sinners against the Lord.

Then the judgment of the Lord is given due to Sodom’s sin.

Genesis 19:13 (ESV) For we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the Lord, and the Lord has sent us to destroy it.”

Judgment came immediately and totally to Sodom.

Genesis 19:24-25 (ESV)

24 Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the Lord out of heaven.
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the valley, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground.

Another reference throughout Scripture to Sodom is as a picture of sinful cities.

2) A Type of City

Sodom is a type of other cities who are taken over by sin and due to receive the judgment of the Lord.

Deuteronomy 29:22-28 (ESV)

22 And the next generation, your children who rise up after you, and the foreigner who comes from a far land, will say, when they see the afflictions of that land and the sicknesses with which the Lord has made it sick—
23 the whole land burned out with brimstone and salt, nothing sown and nothing growing, where no plant can sprout, an overthrow like that of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboiim, which the Lord overthrew in his anger and wrath—
24 all the nations will say, ‘Why has the Lord done thus to this land? What caused the heat of this great anger?’
25 Then people will say, ‘It is because they abandoned the covenant of the Lord, the God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them out of the land of Egypt,
26 and went and served other gods and worshiped them, gods whom they had not known and whom he had not allotted to them.
27 Therefore the anger of the Lord was kindled against this land, bringing upon it all the curses written in this book,
28 and the Lord uprooted them from their land in anger and fury and great wrath, and cast them into another land, as they are this day.’

Isaiah 1:9-10 (ESV)

9 If the Lord of hosts had not left us a few survivors, we should have been like Sodom, and become like Gomorrah.
10 Hear the word of the Lord, you rulers of Sodom! Give ear to the teaching of our God, you people of Gomorrah!

Zephaniah 2:9 (ESV) Therefore, as I live,” declares the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, “Moab shall become like Sodom, and the Ammonites like Gomorrah, a land possessed by nettles and salt pits, and a waste forever. The remnant of my people shall plunder them, and the survivors of my nation shall possess them.”

3) Spiritual Condition

Yet the most interesting reference to Sodom is spiritual.  The passage in Ezekiel 16 refers to Sodom both as Israel, particularly Jerusalem, and as a spiritual condition.  Reading the whole chapter would be helpful but here is a portion.

Ezekiel 16:46-51 (ESV)

46 And your elder sister is Samaria, who lived with her daughters to the north of you; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you, is Sodom with her daughters.
47 Not only did you walk in their ways and do according to their abominations; within a very little time you were more corrupt than they in all your ways.
48 As I live, declares the Lord God, your sister Sodom and her daughters have not done as you and your daughters have done.
49 Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.
50 They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.
51 Samaria has not committed half your sins. You have committed more abominations than they, and have made your sisters appear righteous by all the abominations that you have committed.

The whole chapter in Ezekiel lists sin after sin of Israel.  In just the above portion abominations, corruption, pride, excess of food, prosperous ease, not aiding the poor and needy, and haughtiness are listed.  Most of these are referring to the sins of the heart.  Even though they are called Sodom there is no specific reference to homosexuality.  Does that mean homosexuality was not a problem?   Of course not.  But homosexuality is the outgrowth or the fruit of the sins of the heart.

Jerusalem is also a symbolically Sodom because of false prophets and because they crucified the Lord.

Jeremiah 23:14 (ESV) But in the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: they commit adultery and walk in lies; they strengthen the hands of evildoers, so that no one turns from his evil; all of them have become like Sodom to me, and its inhabitants like Gomorrah.”

Revelation 11:7-8 (ESV)

7 And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them,
8 and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

Throughout Scripture we are given lists of the sins of our heart and flesh.

Matthew 15:18-20 (ESV)

18 But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person.
19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.
20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”

Galatians 5:19-21 (ESV)

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

When we relegate the sin of Sodom to just one particular sin, heinous though it may be.  We have missed the point.  Judgment will come to all whose hearts are defiled and are not turned to the Lord.  While one place may be characterized by homosexuality, another maybe characterized by murder, another by pride and striving and yet another by false teachers.

So if Sodom is everywhere and in our hearts.  Where do we flee?  We can’t flee from the cities because the country is just as sinful, maybe not as obvious, but sin does reign in the hearts of all mankind until the Lord calls them.  We can’t isolate ourselves in our homes because sin is there in our own hearts.

So how do we flee Sodom?

We flee to the Lord seeking His mercy and protection.  Otherwise we are still in Sodom.

Psalms 11:6 (ESV) Let him rain coals on the wicked; fire and sulfur and a scorching wind shall be the portion of their cup.

23 thoughts on “Where Is Sodom?

  1. I appreciate your study, BW, but I don’t see where what you are saying has any Scriptural basis whatsoever. You’ve “spiritualized” it.

    From the Book of Genesis, through the Prophets, to Jesus, Sodom is not merely used as a euphemism for “the world.” It is referred to as the pinacle of evil.

    Yes, all kinds of cities are known for all kinds of evil, but the Bible regards homosexuality as a very serious sin, one for which a city or country will be destroyed physically.

    All sin is not alike. All sin is sin, and all sins come from the heart, yes, but not all sin is alike. Some sins are much worse in seriousness than others. Some, like sodomy, receive a harsh punishment even in this life (Genesis 19; Romans 1). Sexual sin is like none other, because with it, we sin against our own bodies (I Cor. 6:18; Romans 1:27).

    Cities which are known for the sin of Sodom are cities which must be fled, before they have an effect on us, not just our children, as with Lot and his family. Their desensitization is shown in the fact that they stayed in Sodom for so long.

    I am amazed at how lenient Christians are getting about this sin, acting like it is not any more serious than another. When we Christians act like all sin is alike, we end up giving passes for the very serious ones.

    In eternity, Bethsaida and Chorizin (and all of us) will be judged harsher than Sodom because of rejecting Christ (the worst sin of all, especially when many of us have such a great witness when Sodom didn’t), but Sodom didn’t have to wait until eternity to be destroyed, and Bethsaida and Chorazin were not immediately destroyed by fire and brimstome like Sodom was, because they did not have the same sin.

    “Sodom” is not known in Scripturer as a euphemism for “the world.” You’ve defined it too loosely, again.

    (Sorry to have to disagree.)

    Berean Wife Reply:


    I’ll have to get back to you to respond better but just a verse to share:

    Revelation 11:7-8 (ESV)
    7 And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them,
    8 and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

    Notice “the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt” the ESV uses “symbolically” which I don’t know why. Most other versions use the word “spiritually” which seems to me to be the better translation. The actual Greek word is “pneumatikoós” which “pneuma” is spirit.

    That’s one of my basis for a spiritual “Sodom”.

    Berean Wife

    P.S. I’ll get back later.

    Berean Wife Reply:


    Believe me I’m not lenient with this sin. But I’m tired of the leniency that other sins get. We can’t elevate sins and by default then lower sins as being less heinous to the Lord. We must see what the Scriptures say about sin.

    What city in the world can you move to that is not filled to the brim with divorce and adultery? Divorce is actually somewhat more prevalent in the rural area I live in now than it was in the city we moved from. What city doesn’t have immorality? Anger? Drunkenness? (Galatians 5:19-21)

    We can’t give passes for any sin is what I’m trying to get across. Pride, self-righteousness, anger, or any number of sins do not affect others the way sexual sin does; however, they are sins worthy of Hell and judgment.

    Sodom is the being given over to sin. Pride in our sin. Boldness and arrogance of our sins:

    Isaiah 3:8-9 (ESV)
    8 For Jerusalem has stumbled, and Judah has fallen, because their speech and their deeds are against the Lord, defying his glorious presence.
    9 For the look on their faces bears witness against them; they proclaim their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! For they have brought evil on themselves.

    Berean Wife

  2. Israel is a type of Sodom because she was frequently guilty of this same sin, btw. Ezekiel lists other sins, which are serious, and pave the way for sodomy, but throughout the O.T. Israel is shown to be guilty of the same sin as Sodom (look up Judges 19, especially v. 22) and also II Kings 23, especially v. 7) which is why destruction in this life came to her.

    These people can be saved, too, as we were all saved from all sorts of sins (“and such were some of you”).

    Berean Wife Reply:

    But Mary those were not the only deciding factors of sin. The Scriptures are full of the sins of Israel.

    As you say you are not a Calvinist, how can these people be saved if there is no Christian left in the city to share the gospel?

    Berean Wife

  3. I believe that verse is talking about physical Jerusalem in the end times (I believe in the classic pre-trib rapture of the pre-millenialist). It is not spiritual Sodom. It is physical Jerusalem, not “the church” or any spiritual Jerusalem. Physical Jerusalem is symbolically called Egypt and Sodom (same sins).

    Berean Wife Reply:


    Is that not spiritualizing?

    I must admit that endtimes gets me all tangled up in multitudes of Scriptures. Sometime the Lord may wish to reveal more about it to me but so far he hasn’t such that I would insist on many points. There is a literal Hell and a literal judgment for unbelievers. There is a glorious promise of Christ’s return for His own.

    I’ll have to stick with the verse here in the KJV:

    Revelation 11:8 (KJV) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

    Berean Wife

  4. Also, BW, in my concentration on Sodom, I neglected to say that “Egypt” is ALWAYS known as “the world.” When we “go back to Egypt,” we are “going back to ‘the world’.”

    The passage you quote says “Sodom,” AND “Egypt,” two different things — one a city infested with homosexuality, the other simply “the world.”

    Physical Jerusalem was infested with worldliness AND homosexuality. Not good.

  5. Mary, I wanted to point out this statement made by you…”but the Bible regards homosexuality as a very serious sin, one for which a city or country will be destroyed physically.
    All sin is not alike. All sin is sin, and all sins come from the heart, yes, but not all sin is alike. Some sins are much worse in seriousness than others. Some, like sodomy, receive a harsh punishment even in this life (Genesis 19; Romans 1). Sexual sin is like none other, because with it, we sin against our own bodies (I Cor. 6:18; Romans 1:27).

    While I agree that sexual sin is deadly, I do not understand where this is the one sin that ‘breaks the camel’s back’ concerning judgment. I understand this sin to be the one that results from a downward spiral in society, a society that rejects the commands of the Living God and lives according to man’s way. It’s a progression: society goes from rebellion and rejection of God’s commands which leads to sexual immorality being rampant, which leads to homosexuality and lesbianism being rampant.
    I found this insight into homosexuality being worse than heterosexual immorality from John MacArthur…

    Does God consider the sin of homosexuality to be worse than the sin of fornication among heterosexuals?


    Categorically, no, and I will tell you why. Because when you have any listing of sins in the Scripture, for example, in 1 Corinthians, chapter 6, he says, in verse 9, “Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God” [1 Corinthians 6:9-10]. Categorically, you have got everything in the same list. Probably when you compare sodomites to homosexuals, some would say that homosexuals could refer to what were called Catomites, those who submitted to homosexuals, maybe the younger boy who submits to the pedophile–that kind of thing, so you have two different terms used for homosexual activity. Some would even use those words to refer to people like transvestites or what they are called today “transgender” people. But when you look at a list like that you see that they are all outside the kingdom. So categorically they are all in the same situation–they are defined by their sin. Verse 11, then says, “and such were some of you,” so, the point being, that those are all sins that are characteristic of people outside the kingdom, but they are all forgivable–right?–because, “such were some of you.” He’s saying to the Corinthian church, “you know, that list is a list of what you used to be and some of you were here, and some of you were here, and some of you were here, and so forth.” So, if it is true that that sin along with many others defines life outside the kingdom, but that that sin is forgivable, then in that sense it is no worse a sin than any other.

    Having said that, I would say, however, that when you look at Romans, chapter one, and you have to look at Romans, chapter one to understand this: When “the wrath of God (in verse 18) is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness…” The “wrath of God” follows a sequence. In Romans, chapter one, you look first of all at verse 24, and here is the defining of God’s wrath–let me kind of sum this up for you. You read Romans 1:18 about “the wrath of God” and we say, “Ok, ‘the wrath of God,’ what are you talking about? Well, there are five kinds of wrath:

    1. There is Eternal Wrath – That’s Hell.

    2. There is, I guess what we could call, Eschatological Wrath, or the wrath of the last days. The wrath described in Revelation 6-19, all the Seal Judgments, Trumpet Judgments, Bowl Judgments–the final wrath. So there is Eternal Wrath, there is Eschatological Wrath.

    3. There is also, what I could call, Cataclysmic Wrath: the flood; the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah; the destruction of the cities of the plain; the destruction of Capernaum; the judgment of God on Korazin, Bethsaida–and in history God has judged whole civilizations through cataclysms that took unbelieving people and catapulted them into eternity, such as Pompeii, which was a city literally notorious for its vice. So you have Eternal Wrath, you have Eschatological Wrath, you have Cataclysmic Wrath.

    4. Then you have, what I would call, Natural Wrath. That is the wrath of God that comes in a sowing and reaping fashion. If you are a drunkard all your life, you may die of cirrhosis of the liver; if you live in sexual sin all your life you may shorten your life and die of some venereal disease including AIDS. So there are certain things built-in, “Whatever a man sows he reaps,” that’s another kind of wrath. But the wrath being spoken of here is the fifth kind.

    5. It is the Wrath of Abandonment. It is that judicial act of God whereby He lets the sinner go. In other words, He stops convicting, He stops calling, it’s Genesis six, where God says, “My Spirit will not always strive with man.” There comes a point when God says, “That’s it–I’m letting you go.” And when God lets a society go, verse 24 says, “He gives them over to uncleanness”–that’s sexual sin. Then verse 26, “He gives them up to vile passions, and women exchange the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful.” So you have lesbianism and homosexuality. When God gives a society up they plunge into sexual sin and then they sink deeper into homosexual sin.

    So while homosexuality is a forgivable sin, and categorically no worse than others, when it happens on a societal level, it is evidence that when a society affirms it, when it becomes normal in a society, that is evidence that God has turned that society over. If you look at America you can look back to the sexual revolution of the 60’s, which has now become a homosexual revolution of the 90’s in which the homosexuals have redefined themselves as a minority, like a racial group of people demanding rights. So I think as far as individual sin goes no more damning than the other sin and as forgivable as any other sin. When it becomes the pattern of a society it is evidence that God has turned that society over to that sin, it may be at that point an evidence that many in that society are not redeemable because they have gone past the “age of grace.”

    In response to that, we hate the sin of homosexuality because of its baseness and because of its perverseness, but at the same time we understand that it is a sin like any other sin and we have to call that sinner to repentance and offer that individual sinner the grace and the forgiveness of God. We can’t play God and while God may be turning our society over–God may be no longer striving with us; He may have abandoned us as a society, still He is saving individuals who respond to the gospel.–from http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/70-18-2.htm

    As wickedness increases, will we not see escalating, out of control sin everywhere, such as murder, greed, selfishness, hatred, jealousy, so on and so forth. It is the compilation of all sin that fills the cup of God’s wrath which causes Him to rise up.

    We find several passages in the Old Testament where God calls for a sinner to be put to death if he/she commits a certain sin—murder {Ex. 21:12, 15} cursing your parents {Ex. 21:17} defiling the sabbath {Ex. 31:14} human trafficking {Ex. 21:16} adultery {Lev. 20:10} homosexuality {20:13} bestiality {Lev. 20:15} those who have ‘familiar spirits’ {Lev. 20:27} those who blaspheme the name of the Lord {Lev. 24:16}.

    It would seem that since this variety of sins all call for the same thing, ‘put to death’, they must all be considered equally deadly. I do not mean to make light of the abomination of sodomy, I know this is indeed an entangling sin that ensnares.


    Berean Wife Reply:


    Thanks for sharing this. I just now had a chance to read it. The Bible Bulletin Board is a very helpful resource with MacArthur’s sermons. That is the first I’ve heard of the Wraths being itemized out like that. I’ll have to study those more.

    As wickedness increases, will we not see escalating, out of control sin everywhere, such as murder, greed, selfishness, hatred, jealousy, so on and so forth. It is the compilation of all sin that fills the cup of God’s wrath which causes Him to rise up.”

    I so agree!


    Berean Wife

  6. I understand what you are saying, Lyn, and yes, homosexuality is as forgiveable as any other sin.

    Humans, the whole world, are judged and condemned to hell for all sorts of sins; all must call on Christ for salvation. If you are not saved, you can go to hell for a “white lie” as much as for sodomy. I understand that. All can be saved no matter how deeply into sin they are.

    Yes, we reap the results of all kinds of sins in this life (liver disease from alcoholism, etc.).

    I understand what you are saying about progression. I believe that, too. Sodomy is the end of a progression of sin, as you say. Once that end has been reached, God destroys a civilization. It has happened many times (Pompeii, for example).

    Sodomy was the sin for which God destroyed Sodom. It is worse than fornication/adultery by heteros, although they too called for the death penalty in the O.T. and are serious.

    God does not destroy civilizations for those other sins, although, yes, they merited the same punishment under the Law and usually lead up to sodomy. It is a progression, as you say. Rampant sodomy is when the cup is full.

    We must be careful of all sin, because less serious ones can lead (the progression you speak of) to more serious ones (the sin of adultery in the heart can lead to the more serious sin of physical adultery, which is why Jesus said to nip it in the bud while sin is still sin of the heart).

    I still hold my ground that sodomy was why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and the sin by which a civilization’s cup is full and it is finally destroyed.

    Loads of sins required death in the O.T., but sodomy called down fire from God in Sodom and other societies right in this life, (I’m not talking about individuals, but whole societies).

    On a society level, once the progression of sin has reached this level and sodomy is rampant, God’s wrath is imminent. We shouldn’t live in places like that, but remove ourselves if we can lest it affect us. Pray and seek God. Pay attention. Lot was heavily affected by his society by staying there so long. We shouldn’t wait until an angel has to drag us out.

    When a society or city is given over to sodomy, God’s wrath (in this life) is imminent.

    I would still encourage those raising families (or anybody, unless you are called to stay) to think about getting out of these Sodoms (cities that are known as refuges for sodomites) before you are affected, too. I would be wary of staying in any place where any kind of constant immodesty and sexual immorality of any kind is prevalent and you can’t escape it without holing up — some cities are known for these sins. Pray. Already, too many Christians are desensitized to this sin.

    You said it yourself, Lyn, sodomy is the sin that results from a downward spiral. It “breaks the camel’s back” as far as God is concerned.

    All sexual immorality is not equally deadly as I understand the Bible, because of the account of Sodom and Gomorrah. Not all calls down fire from God here on earth.

  7. Mary, you say, ‘I still hold my ground that sodomy was why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and the sin by which a civilization’s cup is full and it is finally destroyed.’—I agree. I too see this perversion as the climax of sin gone wild, out of control, left unchecked. BUT, I do not believe God sees this perversion as worse than adultery, for instance. We seem to both understand that progression of sin leads to wrath, and at this present hour, I believe the wrath of God is very, very imminent. Another reason I believe this is not so much the increase in homosexuality, but the increase in apostasy as well.

    I also agree that we cannot get too close to sin, it taints, it pollutes, it draws one in like a magnet then attaches itself to its victim like a plague until it has spread completely over and devoured its victim.

    Regardless of one’s view on what will bring about wrath, we all know and understand this… all rampant, out of control sin means only ONE THING—judgment is swiftly coming.

  8. I think God does see this sin as worse than other forms of immorality like fornication, adultery, and incest: in the Law of Moses, those sins are punishable by death, yes, but they are not called “an abomination” the way homosexuality is. (Lev. 18:22; Lev.20:13). It is punishable in the O.T. by death, AND called an abomination, showing that it is worse than the others. The passage in Ezekiel 16 (verses 49 and especially 50) mentions the “abomination” that was Sodom’s sin as well as the others.

    Berean Wife Reply:


    Many other things are called an abomination in the OT.

    Carving idols (Deuteronomy 7:5)

    Eating unclean foods (Deuteronomy 14:3)

    Unfair weights (Deuteronomy 25:16)

    I could go on but you see many sins are called an abomination to the Lord.

    Luke 16:15 (ESV)
    15 And he said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.

    So we can’t use that reasoning for saying homosexuality is the worst sin.

    Berean Wife

    Berean Wife Reply:


    Here is a verse that expresses abominations to the Lord.

    Proverbs 6:16-19 (ESV)
    16 There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him:
    17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
    18 a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil,
    19 a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

    I’m sure Sodom was guilty of most of these if not all.

    Berean Wife

  9. Oh, my last comment was “eaten.” I do believe the Bible teaches that homosexuality is a worse form of sexual immorality than adultery, fornication and incest, because in Leviticus 18:23 and 20:13 homosexuality is called “an abomination” as well as given the death penalty. The other forms of sexual immorality are not given the designation of “abomination” the way sodomy is. Also, the passage in Ezekiel 16:49 and especially verse 50, the “abomination” is referred to as the sin of Sodom, among others.

    Berean Wife Reply:

    Sorry Mary for some reason the website sent it to be moderated. I don’t know why it does that when there are not links and an email address is filled in. ??

    Don’t take it personally. There is no rhyme nor reason sometimes. 🙁

    Berean Wife

  10. When it was time for Lot and his family to leave Sodom, angels came and got them….I’m not saying we will be taken out by angels, but I do know that God takes care of his own.

    Berean Wife Reply:


    Psalms 37:39-40 (ESV)
    39 The salvation of the righteous is from the Lord; he is their stronghold in the time of trouble.
    40 The Lord helps them and delivers them; he delivers them from the wicked and saves them, because they take refuge in him.

    I agree. 🙂

    Berean Wife

  11. This may not be related (although I hope it is), but I find that when we do things that we think are what He wants or what we perceive to be His will feel very much like they are coming from our flesh. When it IS the Spirit, it just seems to happen. Am I making sense? That seems to be kind of the same thing here…sorry / rambling through some thoughts;)

    Berean Wife Reply:


    Are you saying that often if we think we are doing His will it will many times be of the flesh?

    Berean Wife

    P.S. Sorry that your comments go to moderation. I think the spam filter recognizes returning commenters by the email address and not the website. It isn’t anything personal believe me. But I like the comment spam filter! 🙂

    Ma Reply:

    EXACTLY. And sometimes it is hard to tell….I think of the still small voice.

    Its kinds of like the flesh pushes, but the Spirit draws.

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